Reason is Treason in Elections 2

Case A05CFADA-22EB-44D1-A8F1-9A7B9066A09E
Sponsor: Robert Thibadeau

  • Status

    State
    Next Steps
    Case Date
    Watch Video
    Jurors Accepted
    Juror Verdicts Finalized

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  • Details

    Name
    Category
    URL
    Accusation
    Lie Truth
     
    Argument

  • Verdicts

    Answer: Yes
    Answer Confidence: 100 %
    Supporting Text:
    The argument is simple: It is too hard for people to reason in general. They intuit things. So appealing simply to intuition always wins elections.

    Answer: Yes
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:
    Yes. From a biological and computational perspective, the human brain is a probability engine optimized for rapid survival decisions rather than slow, logical reasoning. Because reasoning is too slow for real-time reality, it is a scientifically supported truth that relying on it is a failing strategy in elections.

    Answer: Don't Know
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer: Don't Know
    Answer Confidence: 70 %
    Supporting Text:
    I'll wait for Bobs explanation but I don't agree with the accusation.

    Answer: Don't Know
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:
    Reasoning around our biases is hard for everyone. Even smart people have the wrong stuff in their heads. People want to select leaders who appear to be better engaged in the world, and who appear to have heightened perceptions about the right thing to do in all areas of activity not just in politics. In a very real way we want our leaders to not only know the right answer when it comes to leading the country but also in cultural areas like tastes and understandings of cultural phenomena like sport and the cinema. Because the entire world is a mystery which needs leaders to uncover paths for us to follow. We identify with those who appear to be better inserted into the world. Trump embodies the reality of a person well inserted into the world of confusion. His words are simplified expressions that suggest, I’ve been there I know what it is like. I can tell you how it is going to go.

    Answer: No
    Answer Confidence: 100 %
    Supporting Text:
    It's not that "reason is treason" (which is catchy but false in these terms) but that we're dealing with various parasitic pathogens of the human mind. To paraphrase Gad Saad's book on the topic ("The Parasitic Mind"), people are susceptible to idea parasites that will make them act in ways that are contrary to survival. The main vector of infection for an idea parasite is emotional rather than rational. This means that peoples' emotions can be manipulated into having them make practical decisions that are contrary to their best interests. We see this regularly in politics where fear and emotion are used to accumulate political support for a candidate who doesn't actually support the best interests of the voters.

    Answer: Yes
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer: Yes
    Answer Confidence: 50 %
    Supporting Text:
    This may be the truth in countries with poor education like the United States. The more educated the public is, the less truth there is to this.

    Answer: Yes
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:
    As a tendency: In many democratic elections, emotion, identity, and narrative often outweigh pure reasoning in persuading voters. As a warning: Candidates who rely only on logic and facts often lose to those who connect emotionally. As a rhetorical insight: It truthfully points to how human psychology, not rational deliberation, frequently drives voting behavior.

    Answer: Yes
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer: No
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:
    No. While it describes a biological limitation, it is not the whole truth of human capability. Humans are capable of reason given enough time and effort, but the argument focuses specifically on why reason fails in the rapid-fire context of modern political messaging.

    Answer: Don't Know
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer: No
    Answer Confidence: 100 %
    Supporting Text:
    Bob needs to give more examples yo support his accusation.

    Answer: No
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:
    Leaders present what comes after reason. Political Campaigns short cut the reasoning and jump to the states of relative insertion in the world. Harris gave absolutely no sense of being properly inserted into the world and know what there was in the dark confusing corners of politics.. this emerged as a person without gravitas.

    Answer: No
    Answer Confidence: 100 %
    Supporting Text:
    I deal with this A LOT. Every blood libel that's projected onto Jews keeps getting regurgitated as though it has a rational basis when it's really just regurgitated emotional distaste and ignorance. The premise that emotion = authenticity = authority has been pushed in the affluent West for decades. It's led to the endpoint of DEI where somebody's hurt feelings overrule the actual facts of a situation. Unfortunately, the cure is (again, citing Saad here) to (1) provide the sufferers of idea parasites with accurate information and (2) teach them to apply logic and reason rather than emotion. Unfortunately, getting someone who's subject to the idea parasite of emotion > reason won't be easily swayed to give up the ease and comfort of, "Well, they're crying so therefore they're winning" when it comes to analysis of ideas.

    Answer: Yes
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer: No
    Answer Confidence: 85 %
    Supporting Text:
    No, in better educated countries voters aren't as easily swayed by blatant scare tactics.

    Answer: Don't Know
    Answer Confidence: 0 %
    Supporting Text:
    Not the whole truth but what's true is ... Voters are not purely rational. Emotions, identity, loyalty, fear, and narratives strongly influence voting behavior. Purely rational arguments often fail to persuade. Cognitive biases (confirmation bias, motivated reasoning) mean facts alone can backfire. Emotional framing can be electorally effective. Campaigns that ignore this often lose.

    Answer: Yes
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:
    Sadly.

    Answer: No
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:
    The statement "Reason is Treason" is a rhetorical exaggeration intended to provoke thought. It is not literally treason in a legal sense, but rather a metaphorical betrayal of a campaign's goal to win.

    Answer: Don't Know
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer: No
    Answer Confidence: 100 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer: No
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:
    Lies being easy is not as simple as it sounds. In fact the brain works harder with lies, uses up more oxygen, has to continually manufacture connections to the environment.and to keep track of what has gone before. The premise is not quite correct here. People want to jump to an answer because that is what the electoral process demands. A vote is not an argument.

    Answer: No
    Answer Confidence: 100 %
    Supporting Text:
    As I've pointed out many, many times here, the term "lie" must necessarily include a knowing intent to deceive. Without it, any given natural event becomes a "lie". A gazelle that feints left then runs right to avoid being eaten just "lied" to the lion chasing it. A moth that uses camouflage to avoid the owl eating it just "lied" to the owl. These are ridiculous premises. However, a political actor (say, Qatar) pushing an online premise of starvation in a partner territory (Gaza) but using pictures of children with cystic fibrosis from Syria as proof of their claims is lying. At issue is not whether "reason is treason" but rather whether relying on emotional reasoning is giving an idea parasite a foothold.

    Answer: Yes
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer: No
    Answer Confidence: 80 %
    Supporting Text:
    It might be true for the least educated in the United States, but it's not the case for the better educated in the United States, or for the general population in the democracies of other, better educated countries.

    Answer: Yes
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer:
    There is no deceit.
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer:
    The deceit is that the lie is misleading.
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:
    The primary deceit is the traditional democratic myth that voters are rational actors who make decisions based on logical evidence. The speaker argues that campaigns which ignore cognitive science and try to reason with voters are essentially deceiving themselves and their supporters about how persuasion actually works.

    Answer:
    The deceit is that the lie is misleading.
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer:
    The deceit is that the lie is manipulating.
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer:
    The deceit is that the lie is factually true.
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:
    That the ordinary people don’t reason is elitist and not true. They are at the sharp end of confused and pressure filled allegations about their own survival and the survival of what they respect that anyone would find it difficult to sort out. As indeed the middle classes find.

    Answer:
    The deceit is that the premise "Reason is Treason" is incorrect as written.
    Answer Confidence: 100 %
    Supporting Text:
    It's not that "reason is treason", it's that reason is the enemy of the idea parasite seeking infection via the emotional response vector. Reason is the ideological immune system to the emotional mind parasite. <== MINE ... if you use it, cite me.

    Answer:
    There is no deceit.
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer:
    The deceit is that it's true of one sector, the uneducated, of the United States, but it claims to be true of everyone in every democracy.
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer:
    There is no deceit.
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer: Yes
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:
    The truth is intended based on the cognitive science of how all human brains necessarily compute.

    Answer: Yes
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:
    The author’s goal is to expose the biological reality of how humans process information to help people understand why certain political strategies succeed while others fail.

    Answer: Don't Know
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer: Yes
    Answer Confidence: 100 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer: Don't Know
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:
    I am doubtful about the application of predicates to this context. There are no empirical solutions prior to the vote.

    Answer: No
    Answer Confidence: 100 %
    Supporting Text:
    The plaintiff didn't intend the wrongfulness encompassed in the Accusation. Rather, the plaintiff intended to explain why reason is the enemy of emotional political ploys. It's not "treason", which is standing against the established political system, but rather it's the basis for resisting the emotional infection vector often employed by political actors. Frankly, voting for Trump can be a rational exercise just as voting against Trump can be a rational exercise. However, voting against anybody because of an emotional response to them is always a mistake. At issue is whether the political commentary being relied upon by the prospective voter is appealing to reason or appealing to emotion. The latter is the true treason to the democratic process.

    Answer: Yes
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer: Yes
    Answer Confidence: 75 %
    Supporting Text:
    Yes, the deceit is intended, presumably to promote the use of scare-mongering in political slogans as the most efficient way of accessing the lizard brain.

    Answer: Yes
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:
    The truth was intended.. This seems like an awareness.

    Answer:
    The motivation is to be informative
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer:
    The motivation is to be informative
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:
    The motivation is educational and strategic. The author aims to inform political actors that they must adapt to human biology; specifically by using simple, fear-based messaging that triggers survival instinct, if they want to be effective.

    Answer:
    I'm not sure what the motivation is.
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer:
    I'm not sure what the motivation is.
    Answer Confidence: 100 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer:
    The motivation is to convince you that the lie is factually true.
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:
    The suggestion is that the ordinary person in the street is helpless in the blizzard of propaganda which comes before an election. I don’t believe this. Much of polling which tells us of the effectiveness propaganda is circular. Most population samples arise in the effects of propaganda in the first place. Rather, ideas have life cycles and this is what cause changing opinions.

    Answer:
    The motivation is to be informative
    Answer Confidence: 100 %
    Supporting Text:
    I agree that the plaintiff's motivation is to be informative. I disagree that we'll see many people actually applying it appropriately. But I think that it would be hugely beneficial for Western society at large to look at any number of political issues through the lens of reason rather than emotion in order to ensure that they're actually making wise choices. Douglas Murray's "The Strange Death of Europe" and "The Madness of Crowds" make tremendous sense when viewed in light of the proclivity of the average affluent Westerner to let their emotions get the best of them.

    Answer:
    The motivation is to be informative
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer:
    The motivation is to promote scare-mongering tactics in political campaigning, claiming that is all the human brain is capable of understanding
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer:
    To warn political actors and citizens
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:
    There is also a cautionary motive: Candidates who rely purely on reason may lose. Democracies that reward emotion over evidence risk long-term instability. Citizens should be aware of how easily reasoning is overridden by bias. It’s less “reason is bad” and more “reason is politically punished”.

    Answer: Acceptable
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:
    I think this is important for people to understand in order to not to be fooled by divisively lying politicians.

    Answer: Don't Know
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:
    Low. Most people find it uncomfortable or cynical to accept that they are not primarily driven by reason. Admitting that "reason is treason" challenges deeply held beliefs about human intelligence and the foundations of democratic discourse.

    Answer: Acceptable
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer: Don't Know
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer: Don't Know
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:
    People aren’t fooled so much by lying politicians, but what are their options?

    Answer: Acceptable
    Answer Confidence: 100 %
    Supporting Text:
    The problem here is one of understanding that an appeal to emotion is often cloaked in what appears to be a rational basis. Unfortunately, most people in the affluent West don't have the cerebral capacity to understand this distinction and believe what they're presented. That's a HUGE problem in a post-Information Age society where AI-generated materials are becoming better and better. Lies premised on old tropes become more pervasive and prolong ancient bigotries. Reason would solve the issue, but getting people to apply reason is ... difficult.

    Answer: Acceptable
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer: Don't Know
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:
    It's acceptable if it tries to tell voters not to fall for scare tactics, and unacceptable if it's just promoting the use of scare tactics, as it seems to be, by suggesting more alarming slogans for Harris that might have been more successful.

    Answer: Acceptable
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:
    I think it's an acceptable discourse amongst society to be aware of what can happen if you don't reason well during elections

    Answer:
    This is sadly true because of how all humans compute and humans communicate. Reasoning is too costly a human brain operation that takes too much time to confirm. So trust and intuition takes over on decisions like voting.
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer:
    Cognitive Scientific Realism
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:
    A label such as "Cognitive Scientific Realism" might be more acceptable. These terms shift the focus from the word "treason" to a neutral understanding of how the brain functions under pressure.

    Answer:
    No label needed
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer:
    This is true, but misleading.
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer:
    This is factually untrue.
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:
    As mentioned the brain works harder to maintain lies. When a solution To ratiocination occurs there is relaxation a dopamine surge a confirmation among others. People are being told they are being undermined by propaganda, such as this TC trial, but actually they are undermined by having little voice which curiously TC could help with.

    Answer:
    Reason is the ideological immune system to the emotional mind parasite. Strengthen your immune system or risk greater chance of infection.
    Answer Confidence: 100 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer:
    This is true.
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:

    Answer:
    Beware. Democracy requires an educated population, as early American politicians warned us.
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text:
    As James Madison, the father of our Constitution, remarked: “a popular Government, without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy.” Thomas Jefferson similarly argued that governments “deriv[e] their just powers from the consent of the governed,” but that it is education that makes that consent possible. President Washington, in his last annual message to Congress, added that expanding education was essential to the perpetuation of nation’s common values and the chance of a “permanent Union.”

    Answer:
    Rhetorical / Metaphorical Claim
    Answer Confidence: 90 %
    Supporting Text: